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Monday, January 5, 2009

So Tired of 2012 Hype


I was watching TV late last night and the History channel had a special called Nostradamus 2012. I thought, "Oh, this ought to be 'good'!" As I suspected, this special was full of misinformation and speculation. Some of the "evidence" of this 2012 event was just plain incorrect, and some was pure speculation, with no grounding in modern science. I'm disappointed that the History channel would air such a special with no hint of scientific skepticism. During this special many of the so-called experts in the subject talked about their views of what might happen and why they believe so. I was disappointed to see that a lot of the speculation arises not from scientific data, but from carvings in rocks made thousands of years ago.

The view most contradictory to scientific thought, however, is that the "galactic alignment" is going to cause widespread destruction. The fact that they call this "astronomy" is insulting. This "alignment" of our sun with the galactic center occurs every 26,000 years, as the Earth's axis wobbles like a top. This wobbling is called precession. Precession is nothing new, the Earth has been doing this (as far as we know) since it was formed. What makes this "alignment" any different than the hundreds before it? Nothing. Besides, if we were to view this event from any location other than Earth, it would look completely different. The view from Mars or Jupiter would be totally different. Who are we to think that since our view of the sun and galaxy line up that something catastrophic will happen. This is typical of a Dark Age Earth-centered universe (which is obviously false).

Below I have made an animation that shows the sun's position at Dec 21 in the years 1800, 1900, 2000, and 2100. In this animation, you can see the apparent motion of the sun due to the Earth's axis precession. Clearly, if alignment with the galactic core was a catastrophic event, we'd already be seeing effects!



Apparent motion of the sun due to Earth's axis precession.

So next time you hear someone babbling about the 2012 disaster, just remember to take it with a grain of salt, and a good heap of scientific skepticism. I, for one, am so tired of the 2012 hype (and it is just hype), as are many legitimate astronomers. So please, just dispense with the BS.

66 comments:

Anonymous said...

Your visual animation is in 2 dimentions. It does not show the change of the position of the solar system within the galaxy, and fails to compute the 56,000 year cycle of the solar system around the 'center' of the galaxy, which is theorized as a black hole, and negates the theory of man living 56000 years ago as well.
Nevermind if man was around 56000 years ago, but 26000 years ago the earth was on the opposite side of the galaxy. Between here and there, there is supposed to be an asteroid belt or something. I think we would have to travel through it twice in the next 26000 years.
What is that? 2 earth precession wobbles or something? Perhaps cave men passed this knowledge on through folk lore and stonehenges, etc. Perhaps not.
But as a scientist, one might consider all the data in the galaxy. Perhaps it is instinctive within the human mind and selective breeding we sense something happening, because some selective people survived/witnessed the journey through the galactic meteor belt or whatever.
Perhaps electronics can only function on the polar south of the black hole, the dark star. or the east or west of it. gravity of such a star affects electrons and its gravity also directly effects electrons as well.
Can one assume it also is polorized? i do not know. Maybe gravity is polorized as well, i do not know, but as an engineer, perhaps you could account for any affect these things have upon your silly electrons. Will electronics be affected in the center of the universe or not Mister Smarty pants? Tell me that.
Lol, im not a Mayan, but the data they calcucated should be figured in, in my opinion, not negated Sir.
Thanks.

Sean Welton said...

While I would agree that it is theorized that the center of the galaxy is in fact a black hole, our linear alignment with such an object would be barely different than a non-linear arrangement of such objects.

Also, electrical circuits, or electronics as we call them, would work the same whether they were above or below the galactic plane. When designing electronics an engineer relies on a set of equations known as Maxwell's Equations. These four equations govern the workings of all the fundamental forces of physics, and are relativistically invariant. This means that no matter what velocity, acceleration, gravity, or mass, these equations hold exactly true.

I also won't refuse that the end of the Mayan calendar is a spooky implication, but in the real world of scientific skepticism, a spooky coincidence is not a replacement for cold, hard data. If one could point me to a peer-reviewed article in a legitimate scientific journal that points to a real possibility of a 2012 disaster, I might just change my mind.

Now, I don't deny that something might happen in 2012, but it could also happen tomorrow! I just don't see any legitimate evidence that the "end" will be in 2012.

Sean

January 6, 2009 at 10:56 PM

Anonymous said...

Yeah. I'm not much, if any, for astrology, but unfortunately. that is the tradition which led to modern astronomy or at least went along the lines of modern astronomy....I don't know anything about maxwells equations, but, as history has proven, even Archamedes and all those great philosophers/scientists, etc., even proven facts, can change....
I do not even know the entire theory that the Mayans laid out for 'end of time', but by definition, in their minds(pretty smart calculations), and by a measure, it is at least AN end of A time...Like a New year starts, i.e., end of a year, beginning of a new one, our galactical placement technically would be beginning a new cycle...
Perhaps, the beginning of the Mayan Calander is rather more important to be researched, than the end....Perhaps it is not a technical, but i believe, some Bearded Dude was supposedly to have been 'the time giver' to Mayans....Too bad we cannot research his data, perhaps it was accumulated with data from the opposite side of the galaxy.....Also I invite you to watch a show on 'absolute zero'. Maybe you have seen it. I think that it was on PBS, forgot, but they said quantum mathmatics were at play there....Dont know much about quantum math either....
I do knkow that there is an asteroid galactic asteroid belt which we(our solar system) is about to go thru though..Every 26000 years I think....
As far as having the data as to the end, all I can say is that perhaps some people have been keeping track of the solar system since last time we were at this point in the galaxy.
I'm sorry, I forget the title, but I seen a 3 part series about old 'monuments' like the pyramids in Egypt,Mexico/S.America, Cambodian temple, and some stuff up by stonegenge...Anyway they studdied the precession of earth and figured out where the stars were in 10500bc, and the monuments all lined up at that time accordingly.
I think, that the geologist date the time when the asteroid that hit earth and killed dinosaurs to a point in time where our solar system was, and we are about to enter. An asteroid belt or something. That is about all the hard data I can give you concerning the point in time, our, 'galactical year', so to speak. But I have also no hard data on maxwells laws being tested within a black hole, or in proximity thereof, or either on the other side of this galaxy, so thats fair I guess :)...
Believe me, im no chicken little, and dont forcast an 'end of earth/life' right at solstice 2012, but I let myself remain aware of it, because there is historic value in it at least....Perhaps the Mayan peoples would rather like to start a diary on time at that date, because, historically, it is the end of their calander, and factually, lol, it is like last years calander, must be tossed out....You could make one in stone though, and perhaps in 26000 years some poor peoples willl find a 2008 calander and start phreaking out. What a legacy, but jokes don't usually last long, neither do tyrannys(though, like Animal Farm tyrannies can last a small time usually). There might be hard data from 26000 years abo, but time usually erases man made stuff.
thanks.I'll try to find the series on the 10500bc research and give you the title, it is on video....it is not about the end of someones old used calendar(entirely), but it has signifigant astronomical value....Tks have nice day.

Sean Welton said...

Unfortunately, we don't have a way to check whether Maxwell's Equations hold inside a black hole. Being that no information can travel faster than light limits our ability to see past the event horizon! So until we find the grand unifying theory of gravity, we'll just be in the dark!

Sean

January 7, 2009 at 11:23 PM

Anonymous said...

Yes, unfortunately...And I was wrong as well. A galactic year is 225million years, and according to wikipedia as well, it is approximately a 'galactic new year'. An anniversary with something refered to as 'the great dying'....
Perhaps there are Gravity flares like solar flares. Who knows what gravity actually is exactly. If you know please tell me. ...
If I'm not mistaken, it takes light 26000 years(one earth precession) to and/or from thg center of the galaxy. Theoretically. Perhaps the last time this happened, there was a big gamma ray explosion, black hole gulp or something. Perhaps this is what was seen all over earth. Perhaps every 26000 years the black hole gulps, and perhaps it was just a coincidence....Guess thats enoough speculation, however 'lost civilizations' is a 3 part movie and speculates that 12000 years ago there were sea faring people, (like the mayan bearded man, the time giver),who made monuments aligned with stars at 10500 bc views. But perhaps there was a global astrological phenomenon to which alot of earth people were shocked into recording such events monumentally. Who and or what would cause people to think so very very much about astronomy and make monuments about it all over earth?
Who knows.

qraal said...

*sigh*

So much ignorance dressed up as fact.

I very much doubt the Mayan calendar's recycling will amount to very much, especially since no one is too sure when the current cycle began.

Anonymous said...

I think Einsteins theories are bordering on ingorance dressed up as fact Qraal. Dark matter and dark energy are not ignorance dressed as fact, the are mysteries. So is history. I agree that the myan b.s. is mythological if that is what you are refering to. But so is the hype created by area 51 disinformation tactics. If you are interested in historical aspects of astronomy, you may have to cut thru alot of mythological bs, but there is truth.lol the truth is out there like Moulder would say.
There was an ignorant man who perpetrated a fraud concerning 'the philidelphia expiriment'. A complete fraud about a disappearing boat....I do not consider precicely accurate calanders(lunar and solar) made in stone a long time ago, ignorance. The myth i consider ignorant....And alot of greek mathmatitians were ignorant as well in myth, but the math and physics were accurate....Whatever.

Anonymous said...

Well Done SEAN WELTON.
I too am sick of people babbling on about how we are going to die in 2012. I personally can't wait for 22nd December 2012 comes and we can just say "Look, we are still here, next time you wanna say we are gunna die without any scientific proof, then just don't!"

I'm now going to send this to loads of friends so they stop saying we've only got a few years to live!

Anonymous said...

The Mayans couldn't even predict their own destruction, so I'm not holding much faith in the idea they could determine our end.

Anonymous said...

That is exactly what I was just thinking! "The Mayans couldn't even predict their own destruction..."

From a Catholicism religious point: Only God knows when its the end! Not even his closest angels know when.

My opinion: The only reason the Mayan calendar and other prophets (just a couple) say 2012 based on that calendar is because they couldn't even fathom the world in 2012. That would be like us predicting that "mankind will end in 5076!" WHATEVER.... Nobody knows, someone a long time ago, saw this calendar and heard about writings from someone CENTURIES ago, and took it to heart, wrote a book, made a TV show, and BOOM! You have yourself some believers!

Anonymous said...

I'm pretty sure the Myans got bored of writing things on a stone. This 2012 thing is probably going to be no different from the 2000 Y2K scare.

Anonymous said...

I'm just wondering, of course, not being a scientist, just an interested person. Perhaps you who are more knowledgeable might be able to answer this question. Isn't the gravity of a black hole beyond our comprehension and isn't it possible that if we align with the massive black hole in our galaxy that it might create a gravitational pull on our little planet that would cause our plate tectonics to hiccup a little, thereby causing earthquakes, increased volcanic activity, etc., Has anyone researched if some massive volcanic activity coincided with the last celestial event of this nature? Isn't it possible that some long sleeping megavolcanoes might be thrust into action with a little extra gravitational pull on the earth. Or am I way out of line here. Comments please.

Sean Welton said...

Let's put it this way, you can't have an "alignment" between two objects (i.e. the Earth and a black hole). The fact that the sun could be between any potential black holes and the Earth is nearly irrelevant. Gravity's influence decreases as the inverse of the square of the distance between the two objects. So if you move 2 times as far away, you have 1/4 the gravity, 4 times further away is 1/16 the gravity and so on. At the astronomical distance scales we're considering here, the gravitic influence of a black hole at the center of the galaxy would be negligible compared to the gravity of the sun.

Clear skies,
Sean

February 13, 2009 at 1:16 PM

MildCorma said...

People dont want to beliee something that isnt comfortable with them. If you actually make the effort, there are sites out there with the scientific proof that something is going to happen in 2012. It is rather conclusive, and seeing as myself and the majority of my family have worked in science I have to say that the credibility and factual representation of said arguments is quite substantial.

There are a few thigns that support these arguments that you have ommitted from your blog.

First, people cannot accept things that are beyond the scope of their minds. If this was say, the end of the world, then people WOULD NOT accept it. The fact that we might cesse to exist? unthinkable! We're so important on our planet so how could that happen? The anwswer is quite simple. The universe is a nasty place. We cannot survive out there as we are far too fragile. A MINOR solar storm a few years ago caused massive power and weather fluctuations, and it was tiny compared to the ones we have seen come from our sun. Long story short: Universe is a shit place that DOES NOT CARE what happens to a tiny spec of dust planet, as that is all we are.

Second, alot of the information out there has a large basis in fact and supported theory. The only reason why people are debating it is that is has not been confirmed / denied by a higher authority so people don't believe it. See first reason, and third reason.

Third, ask yourself what the government would do if they knew the world was going to end. The answer? Nothing. They would do nothing. Even suggesting a possible apocolypse is going to cause riots and the collapse of our economy and every system we know. So, nothing would be said, nothing would be done in the open.

Do me a favour and look into things a little before making a decision. The major problem is that we as humans, suck for being big thinkers.

Sean Welton said...

And where might one find this conclusive evidence?

Sean

February 13, 2009 at 9:58 PM

Sean Welton said...

Although, I do agree that government has done far too little about NEO objects and the like (real threats that could threaten life on Earth). For my views on this, see Lessons from Asteroid 2007TU24

February 13, 2009 at 10:01 PM

Anonymous said...

MildCorma clearly has a pamphlet he would like you to read.

Anonymous said...

And so, being the ignoramus I am, am still wondering wondering if there is any geological record of cataclysmic events during the last astronomical occurrence of this type. I first became aware of this "rare" astronomical occurrence from a meteorology professor twenty years ago. He said, "no one knows what will happen, but the scientific community was concerned" was he a crackpot?

Anonymous said...

While I see that you have made some very good points, I think you remain a little too skeptical about it. If findings from carvings in rock are nothing then I am the king of England. People find out a crap load from finding "Carvings on rocks" as to what happened to other races and how they lived and what they believed in. You criticize Nostradamus but a fine few of his predictions have come true. I am for one sick of all the Apocalypse talk but when you take into account the fact that the earths core is on the verge of changing axis (north becomes south and south becomes north) is kinda scary. Why is it scary? B/c all we can do is speculate and theorize about what might happen. It is all fine and dandy to be skeptical, but if people were to let them selves become to skeptical, then even science would be useless b/c we would not have the drive to research the stars, the atom and everything else in the universe. Thinking something is impossible from the very beginning is a wrong trait of though in my mind.

Sean Welton said...

Real science is founded on skepticism. It is a scientist's duty to be skeptical of all theories until proven correct. Without proof, its just speculation. I do appreciate the Mayan's grasp of the cosmos and how it all was part of a giant cycle, but at the same time, scientists need to practice restraint and realize that indications such as those from Nostradamus are very vague. All of Nostradamus' predictions are only realized after they happen, and merely resemble the event. Nostradamus never said that on Sep. 11th, 2001, at 8:46 AM, an airplane (which he could never have imagined) would slam into a skyscraper (which he also could never have imagined). Application of his scripts to this and other events are merely hindsight.

Sean

February 14, 2009 at 10:50 PM

Andy said...

In the famous words of the now dead astronomer Carl Sagan....."extroidinary claims require extroidinary evidence"
I see no reason to beleive that because the Myans calaender ended means anything other than the last calender maker died without passing on the skill.
In those times medicine men...shamans..., or spritual leaders were orally tought .
Would'nt be the first lost art in history

Anonymous said...

I think we should all just wait to see what is going to happen

Orepick said...

Amazingly enough, the Maya were actually literate people, and actually told us what their concept of time was. The Maya believed that time was cyclical, and had cycles within cycles...2012 was the end of one of these cycles and had about the significance as the new year does. But a cyclical belief in time means they implicitly do not see it as more than the beginning of another cycle, not as the end of everything. The "end of everything" idea is a modern one projected incorrectly onto an out of context calendrical system.

As to whether something we do not and can not know about is about snuff us all out....seems a pointless waste of time to worry about it til there is more evidence than imagination.

Michael said...

History Channel has a stable of quacks they've paraded out on most of their new conspiracy/prophecy/lunacy programming. The same guy saying the world would end in 2012 also declared with a straight face that the Egyptians had electric lighting systems brightening up the pyramids.

And thanks for making the point about Nostradamus' ramblings being applied only retroactively; they have never predicted anything. (eg. OH MY GOD! That fortune cookie said something good would happen to me and then something good DID happen to me!)

Anonymous said...

i completely agree with u! the world will not end. how do u rlly expect the Mayan civilization to tell when the earth will end?? like come on! anyway thankyou for making it clear that the earth will NOT end on 2012!!!

Anonymous said...

Germany performed some experiments that showed the earths rotation slowed during solar eclipses. If this is the case then maybe the earth will be cut off from the galactic feed and slow its rotation causing the sun to hang in the sky for a extra day like the Velikovsky theory. But that wouldn't mean the end of the world, just a really really bad day and lots of death and cataclysims. To humans it would seem like the end of the world. But some of us would survive most likely to start over again with a post traumatic stress that would last thousands of years. you can translate the url below with google if you want to know about the German experiments.
http://www.agrw-netz.de/reload.htm?Erdexpansion.htm

Anonymous said...

The posting on March 13 is your best answer - just wait and see what happens. Can't do anything about whatever is going to happen anyway, just like the weather. Why predict when it's going to be different the moment you step out the door anyhow. By the way, nobody should be 'disappointed' by the History Channel not giving 'facts'. They are giving programming based on history people. History obviously has never involved all facts. History is the culture, traditions, beliefs, customs, etc. of a society, nation, ancient or current civilization, etc. You have to stay awake out there so you will be able to tell the difference between 'history' and 'facts'. Sheesh.

Anonymous said...

I have a question and was hoping that you might be able to answer. How long ago did this same astronomical event take place?

MP said...

I have done minor research at this point and so far it seems 26000 years ago this astrological event occurred. It would be around the time of the ice age that humans endured and were begin to settle and develop tools. Oddly enough, one could speculate, man was starting over.

Anonymous said...

I think we need to jsut wait and see because there has been alot of hype made of this but it is just based on people going around and saying the word is going to end. If you really do the research it is jsut showing similar prophecies that might occur around that time. the mayan calender and the whole winter solstice sounds hardly coincidence. i personally am a believer in god and in the bible it s ays the world will never end, civilization might be gone but the world will not end. i am open to the different theories of 2012. not only are people saying it is the end but it also can be a form of enlightment where we have a new way of thinking. i believe as humans we only start to change at the core of disaster. There are many things in the bible that hint to the end and if you think aout it many of these things have alrady happened, we are in a recession which is only getting worse, things such as swine flu are emerging and we are seeing more and more occurences that relate to what is being said in the bible. Especially our environment, i am not one of those go green freaks but i understand there point about how bad our planet is getting and who knows this could only be cuasing the end of civilization. One thing i feel i must comment on is that ive seen the movie trailer 2012 and it shows these catastrophic events and it seems like there are floods but in the bible it says thre will never be a flood again after the noah and the ark thing so that seems wrong to me. but anyways there are many theories about the end including nuclear war, an astreoid coming and killing off all humanity, technology, ect. Nobody knows for sure what will happen but i dont think we should be opposed to this theory of 2012, i also agree with the person who said how are government wouldnttell us becuase they couldnt have a panic and riots. that is why we have to take it into our own hands or else it could be too late. i think everyone should just do what they think is nessesary if they knew or suspected they were going to die. that should be how it is anyway, live every day like its your last. not with grudges or bad attitudes. jsut enjoy life and do what you think is right becuase nobody knows so we cant say it wont happen or it will happen. only god knows and i belive in him very much and i am going to leave it up to him. i am very interested in all the theories and live researching more and more. it is hard when you dont know what really is the truth but i guess you just go with your gut. well i should wrap this up but i wish the best for everyone who believes or doesnt believe. all this hype should be put to rest becuase if it turns out it is true what can we do but pray or spend time loving the poeple who mean the most. :)

Anonymous said...

Nothing is going to happen here is proof why .

Scientists and others in the psychological, sociological fields have asserted that humans use .01 to.10 percent of the human mind our brain. This was worked out by people using there 10% of there brain power so you work out if there right.

Humans have a fantastic imagination this is why we are probably the most advanced life form in the universe. We create stories books and project them to movies on just about anything you can think of…. That’s right all we do is dream and think with these abilities we create anything you want to believe anything. Aliens have you seen the movies and SGI we can accomplish. We created these; If I ever real saw a real alien I would not even blink I would just say hi what’s up? If a saw a dragon, a fairy, a vampire Santa clause or the devil himself I would say do I know you from some where. What I’m trying to say is don’t let our infant minds play games on you.

Also ask your self this logical question if and I say if lightly something bad happens and you guys are right..

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?
I have your answer here below

JACK SH@!@!T

So grab a front row seat baby a bottle of the best drink you can find and enjoy the show..

Break a leg people

Anonymous said...

I love the comment before mine.

Unfortunately, I am one of those who has been caught up in the hype. I don't believe or disbelieve (I have no idea where to get accurate info), but I am SCARED. Hence the reason I am on sites like this, trying to sort out any legit info anywhere I can.

But, in lieu of legitimate information...comments like the one before mine add some comfort.

Really, some believe something will happen, some believe nothing will happen. Only one of those groups can be right. If something happens, whether big or small, there's not much we can do. This isn't a movie, this isn't a book...it's life.

So, instead of freaking out, maybe I can calm down, spend as much time as possible living life and being with my loved ones, and just know that if that day happens, it happens to us all.

I am not alone.

Anonymous said...

I think something cool will happen in 2012

Anonymous said...

Time, God(all cults/religions), and all the other lovely ideas to explain things humans didn't understand were created by man. Considering the new big hype thats been created and might continue to increase in magnitude, I would suggest expanding our portfolio by investing in fast moving consumer goods, around the summer of 2012. For example companies that make cans or canned food. Stick to US markets, no one else around the world believes in this.

Anonymous said...

and since my question wasn't answered, I started looking and looking. There was a megavolcano that erupted in the south pacific 26,500 years ago. Now, I'm interested and skeptical, but I really think that if there is an extraordinary amount of gravitational pull on the earth do to alignment with the pull of the black hole, that something would happen to the earth's mantle, and possible effect volcanic activity and maybe earthquakes. Maybe we won't die, but I would think we might have a really bad time if such natural events were to go on overdrive.

"Cisco" said...

I have done a little research and good or bad,I think something will happen.Even if we can do nothing,I would like too know.While not the end of the world,civilization might be changed dramaticaly.Forewarned is Forearmed as they say.Looking at the increase in earthquakes and weather phenomenon,it might be a little stupid to think we are not in for one helluva ride!Personaly I think mankind as a whole need's a good slap in the face.I'm a surviver and plan to be around a long time to come,whatever is to come.So stock-up or party down!! I plan too do both.

Anonymous said...

I dont know much about Mayan calendar or earth's axes flipping over and all that. But one catostrophe that is more likely will happen is - hordes of people dying of nervous breakdown, panic and high blood pressure. Maybe that is the calamity that all these predictions really refer to. And someone would be laughing out there when they see these hysteric humans walk into the trap eyes wide shut. All the rest would be going to work as usual in Jan 2013.

Anonymous said...

You know?
I saw your article and it make me lough.
Independent in what I believe. One thing like scientist that I really am is: Who knows anything? Which scientist could afirm anything? Our science that you are referring is always changing. You should know that. So, please, do a favor for scientist community - DO NOT MAKE STATEMENTS IF YOU CANNOT PROVE. remember that Einstein couldn't prove its theory untill now. Do you dare to say that his theories are wrong? i don't believe so. So if you are only a Astronomy and not an Astrophisic like I am, try to keep your mouth shut.
Many people could be saved if they are prepared, even for non relationed events. Like for example Solar Flare that is predicted.
Social reponsability is the key my fried. Its not necessary to prove that things are wrong. Spend your time to prove the right things.
Or do you believe that NASA waist its time proving that all lies on Internet are lies? You should need find some job..
Regards

Sean Welton said...

Hi Anonymous, let me debunk your claims one at a time, if I may:

1. Regarding not making statements I cannot prove. This is what I'm talking about. None of these 2012 theories can be proven. Therefore, in the scientific world, they are merely speculation. Besides, if you actually read my original post, you'd realize that I make no claims other than the fact that I'm tired of listening to the 2012 zealots, and that the quality of "evidence" provided by them is poor at best.

2. Yes, I know science is always changing. That is the point, but Einstein's general theory of relativity was demonstrated shortly after it was published. In 1919, observations of a solar eclipse made by Sir Arthur Eddington showed that predictions made by general relativity were observable. Disbelieving statements made by scientists, however, is part of the scientific process. It's called skepticism. I think more people should try this.

3. If you claim to be an astrophysicist (especially over the internet), at least leave a name, maybe some credentials. This is the internet, remember, where anyone can claim to be anyone. I don't claim to be an astrophysicist, but I am an engineer, and have also taken a few elective courses in modern physics. In my experience, the hype over 2012 is not even close to science.

4. You speak of social responsibility. How is promoting rational thinking and skepticism of wild statements amongst the public irresponsible? I'm serious, I'd like to know.

5. In fact NASA does "waist (sp) its time proving that all lies on Internet are lies"! Well, at least those regarding 2012... For example, see their "Ask an Astrobiologist" Most Popular Questions page, also covered in a bit here!

I don't mean to sound angry, but when so much misinformation is being spread, it just seems so hopeless that anyone will ever understand the difference between science and pseudoscience until the year 2013, when this is all over with! ;)

October 28, 2009 at 6:31 PM

Anonymous said...

i have to wonder why everyone sits here and continues to debate this. why? its because humans want answers. whether or not the world is really going to end, no one really has ANY way of knowing. although some of us claim its a hoax, whereas some of us claim its a definite fate, still we find that we must debate... because we are all looking for the truth still and hoping its not the end. everyone is scared. even those who dont believe its happening get frustrated with the hype because they find possibility and fear in constantly hearing about it, and those who do believe argue in hopes that they'll loose the fight and find reassurance that the world will go on. all of humanity has some scratch of nervousness for the coming years, but what will happen will happen and we should make the best of every day living in high hopes regardless! should we see 2013 we'll be all the happier!
-dizz

Anonymous said...

Hi Sean
Let me add my voice to the debate and urge you not to get tired with the 2012 discourse...it is from such debate that facts emerge and humanity makes progress. There are a number of paradoxical phenomena that science hasnt quite answered, so one can only postulate that if science cannot explain or disprove a phenomena then assumption and speculation must fill the void. Let me site some phenomena that relate to the 2012 subject

1. Why does everyone feel as though time is moving faster, virtually everyone i ask seems to be experiencing this phenomena, im sure including yourself Sean. Is it related to increasing Schuman Resonance frequency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances) which has been gradually increasing since 1980 from 7.8hz to about 12hz now? What happens when it reaches 13hz in 2012? Why is science not clarifying speculation on the subject?

2. How did the Mayan people some 2,600 B.C accurately map features of the milky way galaxy, the solar system & its movements etc to details which are only now being confirmed by modern space telescopes? Why is the Mayan current phase of creation/calendar/13th b'ak'tun ending on Dec 21st 2012 11:11am. Did they know something we dont, just as they knew the cosmos?

3. Why are there so many archeological, historical & astrological theories coinciding with 2012. Why is the scientifically proven galactic alignment happening also on the same date 2012? How would the Mayans have known about it and set their end of time to coincide with it. Why have so many ancient seers & prophets referred to the same period?

4. Why are people from all over the world seeing 11:11, i began seeing this way before i knew about it, until i googled it and realized its a global phenomena. Why is there a sudden upsurge of spiritual consciousness? is it mass hysteria? why now?

5. Why is science so silent? a comprehensive search on the internet presents you with only one picture, those that believe something will happen and their 'facts' to support it. Very little scientific facts to dispel the 'myth'.

Sean your own 2012 dismissal did not quote scientific facts to support it. So if there is no scientific evidence for or against 2012 predictions then the rational conclusion is that the matter requires further investigation.

Look i consider myself a practical guy, i dont think an apocalypse will happen in 2012 but when you consider all facts, allegations, myths and experience together a composite picture forms that offers a significant basis for further consideration and investigation into the subject.

Im an African born and bred and have never been out of the continent. Here in Africa all our mountains and lakes were discovered and named by some western explorers implying that the Africans living around them were not conscious of their existence.
That is the story with modern science, until something has been approved by mainstream science then it is not considered fact, any scientist thinking outside the box is labeled a fringe scientist. And who knows what interest mainstream science has? The story of Nicola Tesla is a good example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla perhaps 2012 phenomena is against someones interest and so lets label anyone discussing it

Dennis

Rob said...

This one is for Dennis.

1. Sometimes I feel like time is barely moving at all... usually it's on Friday afternoon when i know there's a cold beer waiting for me at 4:30. Perhaps it's the schuman resonance frequency dipping... or perhaps it's an evolved defence mechanism of yeast to prevent it's demise by altering the temporal perception of it's predators. Further research is required.

2 & 4. The Mayans could see the sky very well without the light polution we have today. They also lived close to the equator, meaning they had front row seets for 12 hours a day all year long to the galactic dance of the stars. They were also, apparantly, very good at Mathematics. .. 11:11.. I don't see that.. thanks to Jim Carrey, all I can see these days is the number 23.

3. Every single prehistory societal beleif system concerned itself with the goings-on in the heavens. They named all the stars and events and gave them great back-stories to describe them to their children. You would think if just one guy in each culture had a little mathematical acumen, he would come to the same conclusion. That this particular larger sphere of the cycle ends at 2012.. but like all things in the universe, there are larger and larger cycles even after this one.. I guess nobody figured they needed to get much past a couple of thousand years when they made nifty little calendars... I know I only schedule a couple weeks ahead in my appointment book.

5. It's likely science is being silent because... there's nothing to say....? They told us last time, and the time before, and the time before... and the time before that! Fact is, nutjobs need money. Nutjobs make money by making people panic about nothing and selling them the solution.. to nothing.... which is.. nothing with a prayer on top.. of nothing... .

I am a Canadian, born and bred. I have never been off this continent.. because it's expensive. All of the mountains and lakes here were renamed by people who beleive that a little man in the sky will send them into a fiery hole if they don't conquer the new world and educate/irraticate the existing population. Based on my bloodline alone, I am a born skeptic; unwilling to accept snake oil or simple answers.. and especially not words and contracts from people who tell me they know better.

Dire warnings about 2012 are all fine and good.. but i want to see RESULTS. Science has a pretty good track record of reslults.. I have yet to see an apocalypse.. and I'm not about to waste my cash on a floating zoo without a big-ass cataclysm and water up to my nipples.

Coleman

Anonymous said...

Really now. It wasn't that long ago we heard dire
predictions about Y2K - the year 2000, when all our
computers mass-produced during the 80s and 90s would
suddenly go bonkers and do strange things. Truly
goofy predictions were forecast, every thing from
all the worlds electric power grids shutting down to
nuclear missles launching themselves. Bunk. Follow
the money. This prediction, like future ones, is all about someone making money by hyping the doomsday
scenario. Have another beer and don't worry.

Anonymous said...

This is blasphemy...Mark my words...it will be you guys who are going to squeal for mercy when God shows his wrath on that fateful day...

Go to hell you blasphemous fools

Anonymous said...

Congratulations, Sean! Your post is running for almost a year now! Very interesting and guess it will continue till 2012? ;) Then, we will know if we will be hearing the “I told you so" line. I had fun reading all the comments. Nobody is wrong, of course! Everyone has the right to his/her opinion. Human Nature! Some would believe something only if they can see it for real, seen on TV/news or was there in actual footage. Some would do something only if they knew it will make them look good or if they get something out of it for personal advancement. Some would help somebody if they are sure if they will win and there's no threat to their lives afterward. Some would help if it means sacrificing their own personal convenience/lives for the sake of others. Some would share information to make others be aware and prepare themselves if ever something bad will happen and some would kept it to themselves or whatever information they have in order to survive and nobody will beat them to their hiding place. So for me, I'm thankful for all the information I've gathered about 2012 mostly from the Internet and the best I have to prepare myself is Prayers and belief in God. I have not seen Him but I believe in Him. So, if He thinks the world is so dirty already and needs to be cleanse I just wish He'll forgive all my sins and of my loved ones and everybody who wishes to live forever with Him be welcomed in His Paradise!

Sean Welton said...

Oh wow, this post is going on 1 year old...

November 20, 2009 at 11:28 PM

Anonymous said...

A flooded desert? Is there really a bh in the universe? 2012 - hype or what?

Anonymous said...

If you dream of seeing 2012 in action and noticed it was around 12:21 p.m. today, what does it mean? And why does every time, I visit this site it rains hard!? I'm not psych out fyi.

Anonymous said...

The whole thing is just GREAT-I have never eaten so much popcorn and watched so much TV. Who cares what happens, if we do all die we will have a great story to tell our grandchildren.

Hey, why is noone talking about the asteroid in 2014 or the GALAXY that is supposed to collide withours. or the great food shortage as AL GORE uses all our farmland for alcohol instead of wheat production???

Anonymous said...

the first words in the original hebrew bible are In a begining

Anonymous said...

The mayan calendar is just that a calendar. And just as we will have a 2011 calendar and the world will not come to an end. We will just begin another cycle of their calendar. Our calendar marks the time the earth revolves once around the sun. Their calendar marks the time the sun revolves once around our galaxy.

Anonymous said...

Hey Anonymous, you should check out my facebook page; http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=photos&ref=mf&gid=370025695559#!/group.php?v=wall&ref=mf&gid=370025695559

If you are not on facebook have a look at this site: http://2012forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13811&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

I'm sure you will find the answers you are looking for. This has been interesting reading.

Anonymous said...

Who rllly cares . if the world wants to end. let it end. if it was to die. let it die. who are we to argue about something as stupid as this. pshhh.

Anonymous said...

Wonderful post. I must say.

However, there are several misunderstandings along it, that if I may, I will attempt to correct.

The first point I noticed was the implication that the mayan calendar is less than precise.
Because it is just a calendar like ours.

The calendar referred to is the long-count calendar, But this is not the only calendar.
Other astronomical data were gathered, and among these were the cycles of all the visible planets in our solar system.
All these calendars were incredibly much more precise than our current calendar is and it even takes into account the seeming clockwork this solar system is, with all the pieces included.

In the few maya manuscripts that survived the book-burning of the catholic clergy, there are stories detailing the destruction and mayhem occurring at the end of the previous periods.
It tells that there has been four periods already, and that we are at the end of the fifth now.More precisely, it ends at December 21st, 2012, at the exact moment of winter solstice. (This would be exactly 12.31am in Norway).
This is not to say that the world will explode, but if we view the world in retrospect for the last 100 years, there has been a lot more turmoil already than before this era, and it will probably not stop until we destroy ourselves almost completely.

Here is a recount of the destruction scenarios:

Period 1: Ends in a flood.

Period 2: Ends in storms.

Period 3: Ends in fire.

Period 4: Ends in hunger after a deluge of "blood and fire" (I would interpret this as war)

Period 5: Unknown

I think it is important to view all the scientific data, without dismissing any of it without checking its validity on account of it being older that what we see at scientifically valid. This goes especially for the fact that their astronimical information base far exceeded our current knowledge of the dynamics of this solar system.
If we dismiss it as such, this would equate the burning of the archives on the grounds that they are "evil".

Anders J. Johansen, Norway.

Anonymous said...

I must admitt the hype has caught me. I spoke once with a professor who told me were "definitely in for something how cataclysmic I can't be sure. But if Yellowstone blows you can only hope you die right away".

Anonymous said...

I don't know if the world will end in 2012 possibly not, but it may be the start of a new era or world order, or maybe there will be a huge war but just because the calendar ends there doesn't mean the world will end as the sir was saying. It may just mean a huge change and possibly there can be disasters but science can't explain everything in cold hard facts or people like Jules Verne and Albert Robida who wrote precise stories about the future wouldn't be possible. I think man's psyche and spirit is instinctive like the animals and knows something will happen. We shouldn't dismiss human instinct as correct as science is. Something will happen and if we know this planet at all, it is usually something negative cause for us because that's how life is for people on earth, an upheaveal. WHO KNOWS!

Anonymous said...

WE DONT HAVE TO WAIT FOR SOMETHING BAD TO HAPPEN. Man is destroying the earth. SOMETHING BAD IS HAPPENING. Look at the chemical wastes pouring into the water, the oil spills, the vegies and fruit that are now tasteless and full of chemicals. More people are getting cancer and the stresss of cities is causing psychological disorders. Something bad is already happening and we can't stop it because we're locked into a system that we can't escape. If a disaster wipes some people off the planet, it's bad for us, but good for the planet as it can regenerate itself.

Anonymous said...

That's true. We don't need help destroying ourselves. We're quite successful at it already! I agree with above comment and this post is interesting

Anonymous said...

I think people who dismiss the ancients as having wisdom lack wisdom themselves and fail to see that the ancients may have had access to technology like ourselves. History repeats itself. Just because we don't have proof doesn't mean it wasn't so. Proof of civilisations disappears so quickly even in 200 years. Other civilisations more powerful than ours disappeared in the blink of an eye and Science can't save you. No matter what you believe if something is going down, you can't stop it. But I'm sure there were ancient people who mistreated the earth just like us and ended up paying for it. The earth is volatile enough on its own without our help.

Anonymous said...

I think that since they seemed so good at mathematics and astronomy it is within reason that something could happen to cause our sense of time to slip,even a minor slip would cause our 24 hr days and our 7 day wks and eventually our old ways of regarding/recording time would have to change completely making their calendar obsolete.........or maybe I'm just crazy
M.DAWSEY

Anonymous said...

I am not a big fan of astronomy but if an expert is willing to explain all this hype about 2012, I'll listen. But I'm glad to see that someone is finally explaining this to me. What disappoints me about the History Channel is that is sounds more like a form of entertainment and not fact. All this is doing is scaring the hell out of a lot of people. Isn't it crazy that every time something like this comes up Nostradamus is in the middle of the mix? 911 occurred and he new about it but nobody tried to stop it. If humanity new about these events years in advance why was nothing done? They point out things after the fact to prove his predictions. I'm not saying these things are not true but why wait till it happens? Now there are supposed drawings that he left behind, these drawings seem like he had a "sharpy" pen at the time and he's a pretty good artist! 26,000 years ago this occurred, so why are we still here? Anybody can predict the future from Nostradamus to Edgar Casey, these men had a gift but when it comes down to it,they are not God. Only God knows the day and the hour and that is when it is the end of our own little world. God bless to you all!

Anonymous said...

a strange coinkydink. scientists have ascertained that about 26300 yrs ago there was an increase in activity from the center of the galaxy, aka black hole. this supports that there was some kind of event that made more gamma and xrays be ejected from the center of the milky way. being that the center of the galaxy is approximatly 26000 lightyears away, we are seeing and event that has already occured...but that has not occured yet for us. i dunno, thought it was interesting.

Anonymous said...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080415111724.htm heres the link :D

Anonymous said...

Two statements from the above mentioned comments is what all this is about for me.

1.Here in Africa all our mountains and lakes were discovered and named by some western explorers implying that the Africans living around them were not conscious of their existence.- by dennis

2. If we dismiss it as such, this would equate the burning of the archives on the grounds that they are "evil".- by anders johansson

THE PRIMORDIAL TRADITION/PRIMORDIAL STATE IS THE HOLY GRAIL- rene guenon
THE WAY IS A RETURN- tao te ching

GOKUL

Anonymous said...

Wow. There are some seriously disturbed people in the world. And ones that truly are disturbing: Those who would see humanity exterminated so that a big rock could go on floating in space without them. Talk about priorities out of whack.

Anonymous said...

an hour later i have read all the comments and taken in the theorie and facts and still im no closer to the truth !

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